Spend a year fixing trial-to-paid and retention before buying any ads

David Barnard… And it's a really good perspective too for anyone pitching influencers to really understand and internalize that as the influencer you think is just sitting around or should be really excited about. It's like even an influencer where it's their own app, you have to make really hard decisions about how to prioritize time. So as I mentioned, you started from nothing in scaled up Meta this year. Why Meta? Talk me through that whole process too.

Ethan EthierYeah, so we actually launched the app in early January 2025, and we didn't launch any Meta ads until this year in January. And the reason for that year gap was mainly because we wanted to double down on improving the product. We got a lot of feedback from our launch, and we know from just looking at some of the numbers that as long as we're constantly improving our trial to paid and retention, that lifts the floor for everything else.

Ethan EthierAnd considering that organic traffic is already converting at a healthy rate, we know that any paid traffic that we send will be much lower. So we wanted to improve the floor for all traffic coming in. So we spent that full year just putting our heads down, improving the product. And once we felt like the numbers were right in terms of a trial to paid, our retention and our churn, then we slowly started investing into these additional acquisition channels.

David BarnardSo I love that perspective, that product really is key. And so many people think if I can just scale up on Meta, if I just had $100,000 a month to blow on ads, of course I could be as successful. But the reality is it still really comes down to people actually believing in the product, people using the product, people staying retained to the product. That's how you build a great business. So how do you think about that part of the product versus …