Read your five-star reviews to find the result users want, then target 3 workouts a week

David BarnardYeah. Kind of important.

Ben GammonIt's very important, but it's not easy, right? The challenge is in the beginning it's very volatile. Then as you mature as a product and company, it sort of becomes like a rubber band ball where it's like all those rubber bands are influences and factors into retention. So, it's really hard to understand what is going into it because it becomes very stubborn. And so, what I think really you have to do to boil down is you have to figure out what matters. And I think with that, you have to be able to speak the language to the user, but also internally. And what we did sit down and say, what factors into retention? It's getting results. We went through all the five star results, all the people that were just hands up saying, "This is really striking a chord." And that was the underlying theme.

Ben GammonSo, you start working backwards from, okay, getting results, what does that mean? Well, in the fitness world, it's the consistency. And so, you start to boil that down. And four workouts is kind of where we started, that number, but then we started to ratchet it down to three. And that was backed by science. And ultimately our job then is to say, okay, how do we get three workouts to be consistent? And our ethos became, and still is today, don't make me think. Get that person in there, they press play, they do the workout. And if we can do that three times a week, that is really what ladders up to retention.

David BarnardYeah, that's such a great way to think about it. And I think in some ways, it's maybe more obvious for a fitness app that the results that you want to get are physical results is like getting bigger, getting stronger, getting fitter. And those are even maybe more objective to measure and see. But for a lot of apps, it still is about getting results. If you download Photoroom to enhance the photos quality of your eBay listings, it's like you're …