Sub Club by RevenueCat · 2025-07-23
The Past, Present, and Future of Building on Apple — John Gruber, Daring Fireball
Host David Barnard and Daring Fireball's John Gruber walk through 40 years of Apple's developer relations: Apple unbundling its own Mac apps in the 1980s, the 1990s near-bankruptcy that left it wary of developer leverage, the 2008 App Store as a revolution for indie developers, 'App Store 2.0' in 2016 (subscriptions for all apps, 15% after year one, faster review, Search Ads), and why both argue for an 'App Store 3.0' with lower fees and link-outs. David shares how a Daring Fireball link, emailing Apple evangelists and studying jailbroken apps helped start his indie app business.
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Numbers mentioned
| Who | Metric | Value | Context | When |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Contrast | cost | USD 1M–2M approximate | App Store commission paid to Apple over 17 years: over $1M, closing in on $2M | 1:50:42 |
| aggregateApps available on jailbroken iPhones before the App Store launched (2008) | count | 500 apps approximate | Apps David could study on a jailbroken iPhone before the SDK | 1:26:21 |
| Apple | price | USD 2,500/one-time | Original Macintosh (1984), single configuration; about $7,200 inflation-adjusted; sold well below expectations | 27:14 |
| Apple | price | USD 3,500/one-time | Vision Pro price | 31:42 |
| Apple | count | hundreds of thousands, not even a million estimate | Vision Pro units sold, as critics put it | 31:42 |
| Apple | team size | 1,000 engineers estimate | Software engineers working on Vision products inside Apple | 34:33 |
| Apple | commission rate | 30% | Standard App Store commission (70/30), never raised | 1:33:39 |
| Apple | commission rate | 15% | Commission on subscription renewals after the first year (first year stays 30%), introduced with App Store 2.0 | 1:38:00 |
| Apple | time to milestone | 7–14 days approximate | App review turnaround before App Store 2.0 (business days) | 1:38:00 |
| Apple | time to milestone | 24–48 hours approximate | App review turnaround today | 1:38:00 |
| Apple | price | USD 100/year | Apple developer account fee; all that free-app giants like Meta pay | 1:50:42 |
| Apple | price | USD 0.5per user /year | EU Core Technology Fee under the DMA, for apps with 1M+ downloads only; EU said it was not compliant and Apple is moving to a commission | 1:51:39 |
| Apple | price | USD 129/one-time | Former price of a Mac OS X upgrade (e.g. 10.3 to 10.4); later made free | 2:00:30 |
| Apple | price | USD 5/one-time | Former price of an iOS upgrade; later made free | 2:00:30 |
| Netflix | commission rate | 12–13% approximate | App Store fee level at which selling in the App Store would still be more profitable than selling outside it, per Netflix experiments revealed in the Epic case (RevenueCat experiments pointed the same way) | 1:56:50 |
| marketCarrier-billed phone software before the App Store | commission rate | 50% approximate | Carrier cut on software sold through carrier deals | 1:29:54 |
| marketGame console and PC game stores (Sony, Nintendo, Steam) | commission rate | 30% approximate | Standard 70/30 split; Epic's store is the exception | 1:47:26 |