Hold weekly calls with partner influencers and build in their ideas

Joseph ChoiYeah, it seemed like you you had a natural sense for the uh ad scripting. For the influencer marketing, do you give them scripts the same way that you do the scripts for ads?

Rafael KramerSo, that's actually something I really try and avoid, specifically for the influencer collaborations. Maybe once I start doing more paid promotions, I will have like certain guidelines in place. But for the influencer collabs, you don't want to work with an influencer who can't make viral videos. You want to work with an influencer who you can incentivize to make a lot of videos and a lot of content, and then let them figure out how to get as many views as possible, because, at the end of the day, they know their audience the best, they know how to get the videos. They just have to be incentivized with 50% ownership of the actual game uh to like include the game in there. Like, you really have to make them feel like it's their game, which it is, um and then they do the rest, like.

Joseph ChoiIf you did the influencer partnership strategy for an app instead of a game, like Debloat, or a therapy app, or looksmaxxing, or any niche, would you give that much equity?

Joseph Choi… If you don't give a lot of equity, is there any other way in like in your experience working with so many influencers to motivate people to like actually drive results without having a lot of equity? Is it purely in like the vetting process like you talked about, in finding the right person and the right fit, or are there like additional ways that you've found in like building the the relationship and negotiating and um like motivating people?

Rafael KramerI mean, I've always been generous with the actual equity, because it was more of like I I wouldn't even say it was like it was just like rev share, right? Like, we're making a game together. It's your game. Um, but what I found with that specific case really, really helps and is like pretty much transformational, to be honest, is really making them feel like it's their game. Like, you know, they give ideas. Uh, you know, even if at the end of the day you don't necessarily implement all of their ideas, because maybe they're not even the best ideas, but you just like have like let them have involvement, let them be part of the process. You know, we had like weekly calls of like updates on how the game is going, send character updates. Like, really let them feel like this is something that they're launching, which at the end of the day, it is, right? So, you're basically building a business together with the influencer, even if it's not like a business business, it's just like a little project. Um, it's, you know, from their perspective, it's something that they're building, packaging, they want it to look nice, and then they're like showing their audience.

Joseph ChoiThat's really good advice. Well, this has been an awesome interview. I learned a lot. I actually didn't know very much about the the gaming side of things as much, so that was really interesting, and how you transitioned into apps and all the lessons learned. It's very very cool to hear. Are you hiring anyone? Like I want to you I'll let you just talk to the audience and like I think it would be a really amazing opportunity to work with you if …